Usually, at times like that, I dont even eat. What did you think? I say, Uh, it depends on what you mean, Larry. But what he meant by that is that he got his points across. You can read multiple different versions of that. Dr. Fauci, you joined NIH the National Institutes of Health at the beginning of your career, almost 50 years ago. Dr. Anthony S. Fauci has served as the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984 and has advised eight presidents. We had a patient who was from Brazil; he only spoke Portuguese. Oh, you do this youre a flunky for the blah, blah, blah. He helped tackle the AIDS, Zika, and Ebola. Anthony Fauci: Im not 100 percent sure, but Im pretty sure I know why I didnt get into trouble. Some of the things were off base they werent making any sense. If I chain myself to the White House fence, you will feel gratified. The road was tough because the scientific community was thinking that I sold out to the activists, and I had a lot of scientists who were saying, What the hell happened to Fauci? But to say that anybody who takes care of an Ebola patient automatically is quarantined, nobody would ever want to take care of an Ebola patient, and you would immediately drain the people who would be brave enough to go and do that. But what was going on was something that I would say dueling press appearances. Since smallpox, as effective a vaccine as it is, has some rare but nonetheless potentially very serious toxic side effects if youre immunosuppressed, it could be deadly, if youre one of those people who have this strange myocarditis associated with it. So it goes backwards. Dr. Fauci served as NIAID Director from 1984 to 2022. So I thought I was going to get fired for it and it turned out I got an award. Sometimes you just cant Lets go home and have dinner! type, it doesnt work. Anthony Fauci: So I went to Holy Cross College, College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, which was a very interesting place because it had a spectacularly good and highly rated pre-med program. So, that era of history fascinates me how we could have gone so wrong. Youre telling me I should either die or go blind,but I cant do both. And when he said that, I said, Oh my God, this is really nuts. And thats when I became a real, almost confrontative, activist against my own government that was not allowing these things to happen. Oh my God, administration! In 2016, he won the John Dirks Gairdner Canada Global Health Award for broad contributions to global health. And if the analysis that you come to comes to a conclusion that a president might not like to hear that, you cant be afraid of saying, Mr. We used to sit down in my deputys Capitol Hill townhouse, and we used to sit down and have a meal and talk about, How are we going to reconcile these things? He had already figured out he wanted to run for president. You see patients, you run your own lab and do research, and you run a large institute, and you have a family. Why dont you just lie down on the grass in the White House and set yourself on fire or something? It was really but thats the beauty of Larry Kramer. John Sununu was the presidents chief of staff, right? He made many contributions to basic and clinical research on the pathogenesis and treatment of immune-mediated and infectious diseases. And Gina Kolata from The New York Times heard about it. They have different names now in New York, and I dont even know what they are. I really like the history of our country, particularly. I still have a picture of it. So we got the idea that, if we could somehow give a cancer drug at a low enough dose but monitor the immune function and the white cell function of the people enough to kind of titrate the dose, could you turn the disease off without any of the secondary complications? I went back there now, and there may be three or four of five Jesuits and 100 lay teachers because very few people are going into the priesthood. Any kind, even a soothing Mozart, doesnt help me. Youll violate the principles of the clinical trial. So as I was getting ready to go out on the stage, Marty, who I loved I became his consulting physician with him when he ultimately died and a great, a great man, he said, Tony, please get out there and do it. And do it means, say, I come out that we have to change the way we do these clinical trials, and we have to have parallel approaches for people who cant fit into a clinical trial to have access to the drugs without interfering with the scientific aspects of the trial. When Fauci took charge of NIAID, its annual budget was only $320 million. Rather than shrinking from his critics, he met with them face to face. He all of a sudden started inviting me to the vice presidents mansion, to Christmas parties, to brunches and lunches over at his house. Dr. Fauci got the idea that if he used lower doses of these same drugs on his own patients with autoimmune diseases, he could suppress their abnormal immune responses without destroying their immune system and thus not put them in danger of infections. Dr. Fauci became director of NIAID in 1984. But I loved every aspect of medicine. Have you been back? So what I explained to Carol and to Scooter and to the vice president is that we would have some time to vaccinate people. Since I was interested in the immune system, I was saying, Is there any way that we can suppress the immune system enough to suppress the disease but not enough to make a person susceptible to the secondary infections you get when you knock out someones immune system? So, for example, the drugs that were used for cancer cyclophosphamide, a variety of other drugs when given to people who have cancer, you want to completely kill all the cells. Usually, its DNA RNA protein. Because I became interested in that, even though I was clinically, fundamentally, an infectious disease person, I kind of switched my interest not giving up the interest of infectious diseases about studying how the immune system is regulated. This is RNA into DNA; then the DNA then codes the RNA. Thats how we got to start going out. He has never revealed a party. "Every day you fight like you're running out of time." Dr. Fauci is nonstop it seems, and he's not tired yet. My budget is now close to five billion dollars. There had been a lot of activity around, after the drugs that, in combination, were proven to be totally lifesaving for people who had access to certain drugs. Is it still that way? When I graduated from Regis, the Jesuits would essentially tell you what college youre going to be going to, that Youre a really smart guy and you want to go into pre-med, so youre going to go to Holy Cross. And they wouldnt write a recommendation for you if you decided you wanted to apply to Harvard or to Cornell or Columbia. Wed been through a lot together. Ive been sitting in this bed for weeks. In April 2020, an email from the director of the National Institute of Health, Francis Collins, nudged Dr Fauci with the subject line "conspiracy gains momentum". How did you do that? So thats why she thought I was this really bad guy, but I wasnt because if you were really good, and you did your job well, we were great. How did you ever see them? So you didnt get a bachelor of science, you got a bachelor of arts. Fauci's permanent pay raise was to . The problem is those people are susceptible then to a lot of things like infections and bleeding because platelets go low. And that was, Were scientists. I would think that my father grew up in even though it was an immigrant family grew up reasonably comfortable, certainly not wealthy, by any means, but not street kid who had to go out and sell fruit on the street corner. I think maybe Ive been fortunate. He did some great painting, but he didnt really make much money, so he was supported by my grandmother. Despite calls for his replacement, Dr. Fauci stood his ground and remained in his post throughout the administration of President Donald Trump. According to the Web of Science, Dr. Fauci ranked 9th out of 3.3 million authors in the field of immunology by total citation count between 1980 and April 2022. No, I dont. So I would come back home at nine oclock, 9:15, and we would eat. Im going to dance. Be careful because hes very demanding. So she had heard that I was a very demanding person. These latter diseases were called vasculitis syndromes, and many were uniformly fatal. Fauci applied these insights to his patients, leading to historic breakthroughs in the treatment of formerly incurable vasculitis syndromes, such as polyarteritis nodosa, granulomatosis with polyangiitis, and lymphomatoid granulomatosis. Thats why I went into infectious diseases, ultimately, because its such a dramatic aspect of medicine. How do you deal with that? People who back then, remember, AZT when we were starting to test drugs for the opportunistic infections, one of the infections was an infection called cytomegalovirus (CMV), which, in people whose immune system was suppressed, it had some devastating consequences, one of which was it chewed away at the retina and you lost your vision. And then youve got to go back down and be on Rachel Maddow late at night. It so happens fast-forward many years reverse transcriptase is the enzyme that the HIV virus uses to get its HIV RNA to become DNA to get into your cell to start multiplying. What did they do? When theres a lot of money around, you can say, Okay, lets put a little money there. But when you already have extraordinary budgetary constraints, thats a real difficult thing to do, to convince somebody to put resources into something that might not ever happen. Thanks to whats the right word? So if youre in the middle of an outbreak of smallpox, and you want to vaccinate people like you go back multiple decades and youre in Africa the risk of the toxicity is far less than the risk of the devastating effect of the disease. So you may be on every other night and every other weekend but there were days in a row when you just wouldnt leave. I mean when I got to medical school, that was, I think, the real true birth of the Tony Fauci that I am today. Mikovits: [Fauci] directed the cover-up. Where did you grow up and what was it like? Anthony Fauci: People who hear stories about medical school would think Im a little bit off-kilter by saying this, but I absolutely loved medical school. Anthony Fauci: Its free. He was one of the principal architects of the Presidents Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), a program that has saved more than 20 million lives throughout the developing world. With the crisis situations that you handle, not to mention the regular duties of your day job, do you find time to sleep? Anthony Fauci: Thats assuming Im arriving at the pearly gates! The vice president wanted very much to take smallpox off the table. If you dont agree with that direction, tell me, well discuss it, and you might convince me that we want to go in a different direction. Lets talk about your childhood and early years. The following list sorts all cities in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia with a population of more than 50,000. Ive shrunk a little. Strange names. Both of his parents were the children of Italian immigrants, and Anthony Fauci spent his early years in Bensonhurst, at that time a predominantly Italian-American neighborhood. Wait a minute. In 1980, Dr. Fauci was named to head the new Laboratory of Immunoregulation. And it was that kind of involvement back then, with very little attention paid by the public or the government at the time, that was another triggering thing for me to make a career change.
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