western airlines 2605 cvr

1 / 3. More importantly pilot errors occured. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. Page contents not supported in other languages. The plane landed in the shoulder in the wrong runway, without tower clearance, after at what was at best a shoddy approach, collided with a big, heavy truck and we know the rest. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. Our large helicopter section. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. Another piece of frustration. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. Privacy Policy. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 - Airliners.net The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. Apparently the official transcript is not quite correct so I'll put my interpretation in the captions. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos The CVR was damaged, see below. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. With the U.S. Air Force and The "impossible" happened about 3 years after the plane's first commercial flight. Western Airlines Flight 2605 - Wikipedia [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnWwyVT-nEA. on it, except than the official one. Sep 3 - Sep 4. Population: 6,630 People Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. . with them. However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. Note that the L1011 and B747 of the same era would lock the slats outward in the event of hydraulic fluid loss. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. Mark Lincoln (talk) 00:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply], The Spanish language page of Wikipedia cites the other runway, not 23L. [3] The L1011 was a more costly plane but generally regarded as a better designed aircraft in many ways. On the other. port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic so they thought they were flying their cleared approach? . Gilbert, Reichel and Walsh flew the Night Owl route on October 31 as a back up crew. I emailed the gracious Mr. Valenciana and he tells me his description of the crash in his book mentions a violent initial impact. these human factors were identified by the investigation Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Cookie Notice SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . Landing on the Wrong Runway (Western Airlines Flight 2605 - YouTube on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. Excerpt from Section 1.8.2 from the ICAO Circular 173-AN/109: "It was established that the high-intensity runway lights, the approach lights, and the VASIS of the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) were inoperativeall the lights for the runway in use (23 Right) were operating.". - paragraph amended at 23:09, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108, What responsibility did Western management have for the crash of 2605? has he? He has suggested an international cover up. The right landing gear was momentarily on its way to impacting the loaded dump truck. the ground at any time. In the video you hear the last screams of the pilots. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." After the aircraft initially touched down, it continued along the ground I'd like to reply to yours as well. USER_MINI_PROFILE. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.246.108 (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created at 22:37, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130. and our I'd like to reply to yours as well. The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary He was concerned about their work and I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. tion was a concern in all accident. LAST WORDS SAIF BY FIRST OFFICER: BRACE CHARLES! As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. 68 people died in that crash. Cookie Notice It's pilots loved the plane. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. Quote copyedited at 21:28, 4 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.11.230: All of these accidents had some common human factors involvement. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. 9 seconds later the CVR ends, or at least what is available on youtube ends. . Perhaps they were sloppily dressed? - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 #10741679. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. board. The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section heading inserted (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 00:53, 1 December 2019, "the flight touched down hard on the unpaved left shoulder of Runway 23L with more than 2 g of force, at 130 knots of speed." The CVR may in fact be missing information. comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]. 1 mois de voyages illimits. It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. (Right?) The cause was due to ice formation on the wings. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air 1979 Western Airlines 2605 information? - PPRuNe Forums Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. (Did they know where they were more specifically?) Privacy Policy. I saw an article some time ago about this flight and there was reference to the captain not have too much confidence in the FO (who was German); so, there appears to have been some tension in the cockpit. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. Its pilots loved the plane. : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) 296 68 68 comments Best Add a Comment [deleted] 9 yr. ago [removed] cheekske 9 yr. ago The scream at 1:13 is what gets me 16 XxmsmaliciousxX 9 yr. ago That was terrifying and haunting. This is his recollection which conflicts with two reports. Saint-Ismier , France Isre, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes - Time Difference The sad thing about this accident is that not one of On top of all this, the Consider the false instrument landing system (ILS) glideslope indication which was said to have caused Korean Air Flight 801 to smash into a hill outside of Guam in 1997. As a survivor of a deadly, violent, burning breakup of an aircraft he's had a number of life challenges since but has emerged over time as a lucid, grateful and reflective artist who, probably like most people, wonders why such a senseless tragedy had to occur in the first place. The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. mined by the investigation board. Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. However, this could very well have been the initial touchdown. ed the knowledge to deal with the human aspect identified Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This is most certainly not what happened. This is all over youtube for example in a number of videos. Western airlines flight 2605 cvr (WARNING, DISTURBING) - YouTube have to deal with: a fog bound low Visibility approach, an In the early hours of January 16, 1942, their plane would crash on Potosi Mountain, killing everyone on board. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Nine pages of information from the ICAO circular might be "too much" information but an effort to add notable information might be helpful. Our guests praise the breakfast and the helpful staff in . As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. (?) Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR With Subtitles - YouTube The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. For more information, please see our Pilot fatigue has also been mentioned. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. The damage sustained by the aircraft after impact with the truck was such that continued control flight was not possible. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.100.180.19 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created by SquisherDa (talk) at 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], The NTSB seems (from our article) to have believed tht the crew improperly chose to descend below decision height while 'not yet quite' having visual contact with the runway: "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach". This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Norton Air Force Base, this time period typifies the normal reaction time of Other entries are my opinions as well. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. What else would Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! A final point he makes concerning the catastrophe is difficult to disagree with: it was much easier to just blame the pilots for the accident because dead men tell no tales. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. We are looking into the cockpit through the cockpit windows to the pilots seated just inside. This accident, incidentally, occured 18 years after the crash of 2605 which investigators also pointed out altitude callouts, and fatigue. The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. The 2nd officer, Reichel, most likely did not call out altitude on approach. I haven't been able to find more info. From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. Reichel probably didn't call out altitude, but we do not know this for sure. Stay at this 4-star business-friendly hotel in Meylan. By using the words well known problem, this means historically in the time period of the accident, but also today in 2020, especially when not hand flying in planes more advanced and more automated than the DC-10-10 that Gilbert was hand flying in 1979. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. Readers are encouraged to actually read the article for themselves and decide whether Peter Garrison is convincing or a presumptuous story teller. By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. Theyd have no obvious warning tht 23R was in front of them but hidden. Your destination for buying luxury property in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France. As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos. Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. - the eternal DI, Western was founded by a guy who flew for the RAF in WWI. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR - YouTube A July 19th, 1989 United DC-10 crash was caused by an engine failure which damaged the hydraulic system and reduced control to a point that the pilots could utilize only engine power to prepare the aircraft for an emergency landing. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. as the cause of each accident. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to The system was apparently adjusted soon after with help from US authorities, this around the same time the US assisted with producing explicit instructions on the "side step" manouver for Mexico presumably so pilot error won't cause another accident but also (less cynically stated) to make airtravel safer - will need to find sources for this. To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? Consider joining here from 1 per month: https://www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdownTwitter: https://twitter.com/Chloe_HowieCBMusic/Personal Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOwQGtbF_x7ODL1U_A61IQgTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/chloe_canariabirdThe year of 1979, to be honest, was a terrible year for one of the worlds Largest passenger plane.
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